SCA Quandary

[lumineaux]

Their Highnesses have told me that I can "be creative" in putting together their Coronation ceremony, subject to Their final approval, of course.  Having now done a fair amount of research into the coronations of Holy Roman Emperors during the appropriate time period, it's clear that an exact reproduction of those ceremonies for the SCA is impossible: way too heavily religious for most people's tolerances, I think.

However, do you folks out there in LJ land think that *reasonable* SCAdians would be offended by having a Te Deum sung as a processional or recessional at an SCA Coronation?  For those of you who have no idea what a Te Deum is:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te_Deum

Comments

[math5.livejournal.com]

From a non-religious: I wouldn't be offended and I think that a Te Deum can sound wonderful, and definitely add to the solemnity.

[katherine-barr.livejournal.com]

From experience, it is not usually the *reasonable* that have the problems.

That being said, if the Te Deum is recognized, I can foresee someone waiving Corpora and pointing to the policy on religion, as it is a captive audience, etc.

Would the singing of one hymn be tantamount to a religious ceremony under the policy? Maybe a good question to run past KS if you want to go forth?

[wingblaze.livejournal.com]

as it is a captive audience, etc.

But they're not really 'captive' are they? They can walk out?

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

I think it absolutely does not pass Corpora G&PD 6.

Further, while I might enjoy it, it is a paen to a particular god, done as a Coronation ceremony. There are many who worship none, or many, or other gods.

Worst: there might well be some who worship truly via the Te Deum, and would find using it in a game as offensive as possible. I ran into that some years ago, when I was in a masque where I was playing, essentially, Jesus - in the story of the wise and foolish virgins. It was acutely bothersome to several people even though it was not worship, but parable, and I was as respectful as I could be.

But they were all religious, and felt that true religion did not belong in the SCA.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

It has historical accuracy.

I don't see an issue.

But that's me.

[rtropeano.livejournal.com]

Grrrr, and this sort of stuff is what makes me crazy.
It is historicaly accurate.
It would be appropriate, and it pisses me off that we can recreate any pagan thing such as maypoles, No problem, but a Te Deum and suddenly you have to worry about problems.
I would rather see the time and effort spent fretting over real issues that have created real problems, ie no corey checks.

[fencerm2.livejournal.com]

I believe that so long as we don't begin invoking God and Christ in English and ask that this crown be blessed or that it is by devine rite under God by which they rule yadayada, this falls under the 'no biggie, hey that's kinda cool' category.

We can ALSO find replacement words in latin for anything offensive and see if anyone notices...

Did you actually write "reasonable SCAdians"?

[ferriludant.livejournal.com]

If there are any such creatures, and if any of them are at the event and not all busy playing leap-unicorn with the Easter Bunny (yes, I know, I'm laying it on thick, but I'm having fun and I'm done now), their voices will be drowned out by the voices of the unreasonable SCAdians.

I'm afraid Tibor is right: it's a clearly identifiable part of a religious ceremony, being practiced in a place and time where people can't really get away from it.

And yes, the fact that it's a _Christian_ religious ceremony is what really lights the fuse, but that's irrelevant: it would be forbidden by G&PD 6.

Sorry, though. I *love* that song. I've got it running through my head now (the version from Henry V, since I'm not churchy).

[wingblaze.livejournal.com]

I'm rather un-religious and if it was just something that was 'background music' as they were moving about then I have a hard time seeing anyone even vaguely reasonable being offended. OTOH those are some pretty critical words at the end and whether it passes legal muster is another question. I'm slightly saddened that we even need to ask that kind of question of course.

[katnboots.livejournal.com]

Alexandre can rewrite the Latin into a hymn of fencerm2 in biker shorts. Or is that disturbing even for us?

[math5.livejournal.com]

I think that image is much more disturbing.

[madmikey.livejournal.com]

Is that the song that big goofy cartoon characters sing as they walk along...?
I thought it was deum te...as in deumte deumte deeummmmmm...I will hug'em and squeeze him and name him george!

what has that got to do w/ religion?

wierdos

[lissa510.livejournal.com]

I would advise seeking legal counsel...:) ...No, really...i'm serious

While I, being one of the most anti religious people I know, would be fine with it (heck, i'd be fine with an entire coronation done in latin and in a period religious style), you might want to run it by someone, so if the *&^&% does hit the fan they will have been warned and aware of it....and you wont have to deal with it....cause I don't think you do want to deal with it right now.

Also, make sure that you make a disclaimer at the beginning of the coronation and at troll perhaps. Say that you are choosing to, in part, recreate a historical coronation ceremony, provide background information and documentation for those interested, and state that this is not "religious worship" but accurate reconstruction. People do religious songs at concerts all the time, and it isn't worship. Its art! let people know that if they don't like it they can a) talk with their majesties b) talk with you

Also, I highly support Kat's suggestion of rewriting the song and/or any Latin you speak to somehow make fun of Malcolm. It will make court that much more interesting:)

[fencerm2.livejournal.com]

Another thought. When the Tropes were still active, we did a number of sacred pieces. Hate to say it, but the vast majority of Period pieces that exist still were sacred.

Again, I think that if the context is musical background, and there isn't a Bishop or other religious figure leading their highnesses into court, people will accept it for a musical interlude and nothing more.

I still think we could rewrite the offensive bits into something else in Latin, though NOT a song about me in biker shorts, thank you. Sheesh. Where DO you people come up with this stuff anyhow?

[katnboots.livejournal.com]

I still think we could rewrite the offensive bits into something else in Latin, though NOT a song about me in biker shorts, thank you. Sheesh. Where DO you people come up with this stuff anyhow?

Oh, figured it was okay to be offensive--just not religious.

;-)

[fencerm2.livejournal.com]

Face it...invoking images of ME in biker shorts could cause people to pray to their deity to make it stop!!

[staceyspins.livejournal.com]

I think it's a lovely idea. And a disclaimer in the site booklet would be a good idea too :o)

[siobhan1214.livejournal.com]

I admit to feeling a desperate urge to shake the unreasonable people mentioned in this discussion until their eyeballs rattle.

I'm all for singing the music anyway, and I'd be more than happy to help rewrite the Latin for it if we have to. Whether it's religious or not; it's beautiful, and I would want Their Highnesses to be able to take advantage of that beauty in their ceremony.

Filking is period. And wouldn't it be a moral victory to be able to actually implement plan A?? ;)

Not that I won't be part of plan C if I have to, but I will grumble.