Things Heraldic

[lumineaux]

I have been beating the bushes for people to come teach heraldry classes at Glenn Linn/NRWC.  So far, other than myself, I have one other teacher, the lovely and talented mariedeblois .

I know it's sort of my job, being Elmet Herald and all, but I wonder if there's any point in this exercise.  I am concerned that, having beaten the bushes for teachers, no one is going to show up to be taught.  OK, other than Glenn Linn's Shire herald, who seems to be my groupie. 

Marie offered to teach:

   Conflicts-checking

   A Guide to the Submissions Process

   Heraldry for Non-Heralds (I think this one is all about armory)

I'm considering teaching:

   Picking and documenting a medieval name

   Heraldry issues for second-generation SCAdians

   Either: Gaelic Naming 101 OR Vocal Heraldry for the Field and Courts (how to be heard, and what to say)


For those of you out there in LJ land who are not already heralds, does any of this sound remotely interesting?    Should I be targeting people who want to be heralds or the average interested person who might like heraldry?

Should I do a repeat of Heraldry for Scribes instead of one of the above classes?

Comments

[artisticphoenix.livejournal.com]

Actually the Heraldry for Non-Heralds would be super duper fun if you actually held it next to the battle field and played the game of "I see with mine eye" and have people identify the heraldry out there. That way it can be a beginning course in how "Heraldry can kill you". Target audience would not be herald wanna bees but people who would enjoy being able to identify - - Ooo-ooo - That's Randal of the Dark!

I would appreciate a course on projection - which I believe is Voice Heraldry. I don't have a problem shouting across the field, but have difficulty projecting in course. Basic public speaking for those who want to be heard in court. How's about that? :-)

Do you have a handout for Heraldry for Scribes? I've been looking for examples of period heraldry to use as basis for scrolls.

[dervishspin.livejournal.com]

I agree with the Heraldry for Non Heralds game. This is a brilliant and useful suggestion. Helpful for understanding what the hell is going on in the field battle at Pennsic, and since everyone watches them, it's good to have some idea what they are looking at.

I would be interested in voice heraldry. I think I already know how to do this, but not consciously... so I would be interested in the actual technique.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

I can tweak it around to be Vocal Heraldry for Field and Court and talk about projection, phrasing, etc.

[dervishspin.livejournal.com]

Awesome. I think the only thing I am doing that weekend is fencing and drinking... I am sure I can carve out time in my schedule to sober up and attend this.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

So maybe I should put the voice class earlier on Saturday than not to catch people before the serious drinking starts? ;-)

[artisticphoenix.livejournal.com]

Fabulous idea. I was only going to be fencing and drinking too so I'm in.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

Well, y'all gotta be coherent by 10 a.m. Saturday if you want to learn how to talk loud.

[math5.livejournal.com]

Drunks are generally pretty good at talking loud.
Though I'm not sure they learn much then.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have a hand-out. But it's geared more to "what do these weird words mean" than to examples of period heraldry.

If you want visual examples of period heraldry, the first place to look is here: http://www.s-gabriel.org/heraldry/

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

What kind of things are you thinking of having identified ... "I see with mine eye, armory with ... 'per saltire'/a lion/ermine" or "I see with mine eye ... Randal of the Dark"?

I ask because I know armory, but I don't know Easterners by armory yet. (Now, any Outlanders show up, I got a pretty good chance ...)

[artisticphoenix.livejournal.com]

I think it could start with I see with mine eye "Per saltire" once they know what that is. And then if some of them know who some of the fighters are you can talk about identification.

[math5.livejournal.com]

I have absolutely no intention whatsoever to go to NRWC, but I could email you my handout for the submission process class.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

Send it to Marie, who is handling that one.

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

I've already got one, but I'd love to see math5's so I can get something properly tweaked for the East.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

So, can you adapt your "Herald Eye for the Fighter Guy" class to the suggestions made here?

Interested in running a joint "heraldic walking tour" of the site with me and talking some about heraldic display?

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

That'll be a somewhat different kind of class from that one, I think. Doable, just different. I'll think about it.

Heraldic walking tour we could do. I know a small smidge about heraldic display and can prolly yammer a bit. Might want a cheatsheet for Eastern branches or something, because I don't know them yet.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

Thank you, oh lovely and talented one! Otherwise, just doing your usual Herald Eye for the Fighter Guy will be helpful enough.

Re: the walking tour, I suggested that we do it jointly because I know the Eastern branches' and households' arms and some things about heraldic display. So we can tag-team yammer.

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

[grin] Sounds like a good plan, though the idea of 'tag team' yammering makes me think of WWF-style 'tag team' and foam chairs (like I've seen folks do for tavern-fight fencing tourneys).

I'm thinking we might go scouting out on Saturday morning and find stuff to yammer about before we do the tour?

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

An excellent plan. Do you have a preference for when you want to teach?

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

If we do a fighting-identification-type Heraldry for Laypeople, it should be during the fighting, right?

Heraldic Walking Tour whenever isn't wretchedly hot or during Court. Ditto the Life of a Submission/Guide to the Submission Process.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

It's an Eastern War Camp. Almost by definition, the fighting is during the most wretchedly hot portion of the day, after at least an hour of standing around in the sun without hats on.

Note that the fencers are under shade, drinking ;-)

I was thinking Heraldic Walking Tour for 11 a.m. Sunday morning. That good for you?

And, oh lovely and talented one, what is your preferred title?

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

There's a reason I didn't suggest the Heraldry For Laypeople class to be not-during-wretched-heat. ;) Do fencers tend to use heraldry much in the East? That'd be different (and neat).

Sunday 11am works for the walking tour.

When I'm not using heraldic titles, of which I don't have any relevant at the moment, I think - Lady works.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

A huge proportion of the active heralds in the Southern Region are fencers. We have cross-pollinated.

[wingblaze.livejournal.com]

This is a problem I see in general in the sca. We always start from the "teacher" end, without knowing who the students are, what they want to learn, or even if there are any. I tend to prefer 'pull' rather than 'push' because of it. Tell me what you want to learn, and we arrange something.

But that's me and if it was left up to me to get done, very little knowledge would be spread I'm sure.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

I've already asked the questions (repeatedly) about what heraldic topics people want covered. I hear crickets if I'm very very lucky. Or I get the really helpful answer of "Anything!"

[giselle0002.livejournal.com]

More or less the same here in Atlantia. Honestly, I find they want to learn anything ... even if it's a class they've taken before because they know they'll get something different from it each time. It takes building a relationship with a herald in order for them to ask for something in particular most of the time ... And then it almost feels as though you've led them to that fountain not that they were thirsty for that particular libation.

On the flip side, I've signed up to teach a class, brought hand outs, gotten to the class to discover not one of those assembled was interested or ready for what I had so we put the hand outs in our baskets and talked about what those present needed or wanted to learn. Wish I could come up ... I would ya know ... =o)

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

It is one of those issues with having volunteer teachers, yeah. ;)

The problem I see in general in the SCA is the difficulty in conversion - getting people to move beyond the "advanced beginner" level. Without that kind of conversion, eventually we're going to run out of higher-level folks (through all kinds of attrition). That's not just in heraldry, but other "organized teaching" things like A&S.

[ursula]

The standard SCA class-at-an-event structure isn't really set up for advancing people much past beginner, because that involves time & practice. Guilds and social networking/mailing lists do better. (And apprentice/protege relationships, I suppose; I have less personal experience with those.)

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

When I was teaching my vocal projection class, I specifically pitched it as "being heard in a crowd", whether one is a marshal, or a noble holding court, or a herald, or an autocrat trying to make an announcement, or on an archery line.

That did a lot better than "voice for heralds". A separate class on "what to say and when to say it, for heralds" was also useful.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

Or maybe "Using your voice as a weapon" ? :-) ;-) ;-)

[artisticphoenix.livejournal.com]

Bingo!

[dervishspin.livejournal.com]

Ooooh! This.

I note that artisticphoenix and I are of one mind about a lot of this.
I fear for the East.

[math5.livejournal.com]

The East is not afraid :)

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity - any reason not to post this over to sca_east?

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

Just plain forgot. :-) I will change around the wording a bit and post it there.

[lanome.livejournal.com]

Argh. I am more and more annoyed that I will not be at NRWC. Perhaps I can get a recap of the voice heraldry one later.