SCA Sociology, Part the Second

[lumineaux]

Court is a fact of SCA life when playing at a certain level. Good courts can be entertaining, compelling, emotional and hilarious. Bad courts are like chewing on your own intestines. For three hours.

How would you make courts better? Or, barring that, shorter?

One proposal is to farm out AoAs for people living in Baronies to the Barons and Baronesses to give out. I'm of two minds about this. As a court herald, AoAs are almost always my biggest headache. They involve the highest percentage of wrong names, wrong information, missing recipients and AWOL scrolls. You rarely have to chase someone getting a Peerage around a Kingdom until they bother to attend a court. When I was doing Andreas & Gabriella's second reign, there was a guy we called for every single court who never showed up. I feel bad for the scribe who labored over that scroll that now lives in a dark corner of the herald folder somewhere.

On the other hand, for the vast majority of SCAdians, an AoA is the only award they will ever receive and the only time they ever get to shake hands with the King and Queen. Why rob them of that experience for mere convenience?

So, discuss this and your other ideas for making Court, particularly Royal Court, less like slow torture.

Comments

[handymonkey]

Why is it a secret that someone is getting an award, *especially* an AoA, which is functionally our way of saying "You belong to the community"? Why are we so hung up on the "gotcha"? Why don't we make it known that someone is getting an award? Then again, I have seen an award pushed back and then pulled entirely. But that doesn't happen with AoAs.

[nazrynn.livejournal.com]

Then again, I have seen an award pushed back and then pulled entirely. But that doesn't happen with AoAs.

Sadly, yes it does. Details notwithstanding, I have heard that an AoA was scratched from the docket as recently as some 6-7 years ago.

[handymonkey]

True, and I suppose that it does happen, albeit rarely, all the way around. And I suppose I should have said "doesn't particularly happen" with AoAs. Anything is up in the air until it's awarded.

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

I am also rather boggled by how hung up we (SCA-wide) are on the "gotcha". Why do we think it's 'cool' to haul someone out of the middle of their work (of the field, out of the kitchen, etc.), when they're at their least presentable, put them up in front of everyone and give them something?

It's not what modern awarding kingdoms do, afaik, and I suspect it was rare in period as well (though I don't know of any research to back that up).

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

One of the advantages of the local heads giving out AoAs is that they (usually) are known to the Baron and Baroness, and it is fun getting stuff from people you know.

But I feel like, ultimately, it's better to give out the AoAs in front of everyone.

I think the thing that could have made, for example, the Pennsic court much more bearable is having the orders greet their new members in the back of the "hall." We could have shaved a good 45 minutes to an hour by doing that.

Good heralds who can organize things make it all much better. I think the thing that should be MOST encouraged is to get the bulk of the presentations moved to feast or sitting in state- gifts are nice and all, but when you spend what, twenty minutes to half an hour of the Mudthaw Court going on and on and on about the Toys for Tots thing? COME ON. NO. For fuck's sake.

[alysten.livejournal.com]

I would love to see more "sitting in state" for presents and such. Also I like the roving courts.

[handymonkey]

Personally, I'm not so much a fan of the roving Court because more often than not, you'll miss seeing your friend be awarded. You'll be over here, Court suddenly starts up over there, and it's done by the time you notice.

[hugh-mannity.livejournal.com]

It's not so long since I got my A0A that I've forgotten how special it felt. It was the first time I'd been within shouting distance of SCA royalty -- Andreas & Gabriella. They'd been well-briefed and said nice things about fiber arts to me. I was sufficiently surprised and awestruck that I don't remember exactly what was said.

What I do remember is Andreas helping me get up after getting stuck kneeling, and doing it in such a way that it was almost imperceptible to the audience.

Since then, I've retained for Darius and Alethea and Conrad and Brenwyn and I've discovered what goes on behind the scenes... :D

I like Rufinia's suggestion of having the new peer meet and greet at the back of the hall. Do all the silver crescents or maunches in a batch (one batch per order), then the order can go schmooze them all together.

Giving the royals a quick "how to speak to an audience without amplification" lesson would also be a Good Thing. We don't need to hear everything they say to the award recipients, but when they're speaking to the hall in general, it's often hard to hear them. This isn't always the royals' fault -- some halls have lousy accoustics, and sometimes the audience is chattering away and no one can be heard.

I'm not sure how to discourage the audience from chattering during court. I bring my knitting, so I don't get bored, as I think it's important that there be a decent-size audience at court, both for the royals and the award recipients.

[ursula]

In An Tir, the typical procedure was to announce an AoA or grant-level award once in royal court, and then give it to a representative (usually the baron or baroness) if the recipient wasn't at that event. That's how I got my AoA. (An Tir is huge enough that chasing people around the kingdom isn't really an option.)

[artisticphoenix.livejournal.com]

Couple of thoughts -

No in jokes, coach people on speaking in court so that it isn't just the herald that is heard, tell people that they are getting their AoA so that they can be there, prepared and everyone has enough information. Presentations, gifts, fealty, etc, all in sitting in state. If the royalty is going to give out presents to their retainers, friends, etc., have it as a separate almost private court - which is what last court at coronation has become and that's why it is the least attended.

AoAs to their local Barons if they don't make it after the second time. Make the AoAs lovely, shorten the high orders of merit - really that takes way too long - and limit the peerages to only ONE person per chiv, rose, laurel, pel instead of the increasing need to one up the last peerage to prove that the newest inductee is more popular. Eliminate the greeting one's order totally or ask them to take their companion to the back. This last one is the greatest time waster.

[math5.livejournal.com]

I got none of my AoAs from the Royals but... I think people should get their time in court for it. Though I agree that after the second attempt or so, give it to be distributed by their local group if they don't show to court.
To make court more palatable: one more vote for get the orders to greet the new member at the back of the room, any polling order, no more than x amount of time per item of business (and yes, gifts and presentations don't need to happen in court. If people want to show off, they can have a display outside of court), having people able to be heard is wonderful, good musicians for when there are waiting times is a good thing too (OTOH, the entertainment shouldn't take away court), dragging jokes get old quickly unless there's some good storytelling for something recurrent.

[aryanhwy.livejournal.com]

I feel bad for the scribe who labored over that scroll that now lives in a dark corner of the herald folder somewhere.

This rarely happens in DW. First, scrolls are not commissioned until the registration list shows that the recipient is attending; if for whatever reason the recipient isn't at the event, then usually the award is still given out, and the scroll either (a) kept by TRM if they think they'll see the recipient soon or (b) given to another member of the shire. Sometimes at the end of a reign I get whatever scrolls haven't made it out back, and usually it takes only one or two emails to the DW mailing list, or a letter in the kingdom newsletter, for me to get the postal addresses of the recipients and off they're mailed.

[harpduchess.livejournal.com]

Do all the Orders of Merit at once rather than call the order up multiple times. Do fealty, presentations, non-award stuff sitting in state rather than at court. ESPECIALLY don't do "funny" stuff that only matters to a couple of people. Peers shouldn't go on and on during ceremonies - brief is more memorable anyway. Certain Crowns should be banned from opening their mouths - ever. If the only way to get a recipient to court is to tell them they're getting an award, then tell them. Roving courts, giving fighting & fencing awards on the field, etc can also help. I do feel that AOA's should be done in Royal courts if possible, but if not possible then do whatever seems best.

And when someone is scheduling awards, try your damnedest to schedule them for smaller events. The general populace can help by not insisting that the award be done at Birka or Pennsic when the recipient will actually be at a smaller event. Courts would be smaller if more awards could be done at the 'non peak' events.

[wingblaze.livejournal.com]

I have many ideas. Most of them really just fall into the category of "do good court". Most have been mentioned.

1. Avoid "in" jokes. Your audience is not "in".
2. Humor is excellent in moderation.
3. The royalty must SPEAK UP
4. Presentations and fealties should be done somewhere outside of court (with a few small exceptions)
5. No AoAs at Pennsic EK court.

There are also more radical ideas.

1. AoAs by local landed nobility: Tough call. Does it have to be one way or the other? When someone recommends someone, can't we ask them which the recipient might prefer? I'm also with grumpy - perhaps we should be less uptight about the surprise factor. I believe this is something we should probably start doing. I also like the "One try in royal court, after that it goes local if possible" idea.

2. We may have to accept reality and realize that the Maunches and Crescents have gotten so numerous that we need to stop calling them into court at all. Greetings can take place after court. The other high orders are smaller and it remains workable for them.

3. The time has perhaps come to be more aggressive about telling people to shut up. When someone goes on too long, the herald, the crown or someone should politely cut them off. If we start to build in this expectation it won't be as big a deal. Some people don't speak in public so well, and one thing nervous people do is not know when to shut up.

4. The Crown/barons should get more receptive to feedback, particularly about the fact that most of them can't be heard.


In some ways, when you distill it down, you end up at the start of this: Good court is good, bad court is bad. What makes good court? Usually the herald and nobles. What makes it bad? Usually the same.

We tend to have an inclusive attitude. We let people do things even if they suck at it. We don't like conflict and telling someone "No, you're bad at this." We have a similar problem at work with meeting facilitators and we as an organization need to just stop having bad people do it. (I'm not suggesting we don't allow new people to try or practice, but there are good ways and bad ways to do this.)

Often the crowns that were easiest to herald for were the ones that gave me the most discretion. I could keep things rolling (before court and during) if I had decision making authority and knew they had my back if I told someone "no".

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

The time has perhaps come to be more aggressive about telling people to shut up.

Amen my brother.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

It's amazing how the opinions on presentations are so uniformly against, except among the people who actually ask to make presentations in Royal Court.

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

Most of the things I'd say have already been said. Not that I'm going to let that stop me ... :)

It was boggling to me the first few times to see an entire AoA order called up to induct a new member. It's pretty uncommon in my former kingdom; the exceptions I can think of are the AoA heavy fighting award (they have a 'pile on the new member at the back of court' tradition) and the You've Been Fighting For Twenty Five Years OMG award (in which the relatively few members make amusing show of being old and infirm).

If someone really wants to make a presentation in Court, that can be fine, just ... keep it short. Come up, give it to the Crown, let the herald make the public "for the gift of Whatevers, three cheers" comment, and go back. Ditto for event announcements (or don't have the person come up at all - the herald just makes the announcement).

If the recipient isn't there the first time, try to find out who can get them to the next event. If they're not there a second time, make it happen anyway ... give it to their local Baron/Baroness to give them in a Court, read it in a private Court so that it officially happens and get it to them later, whatever. The latter is what my former kingdom did - they'd keep it quiet until they gave it out or the end of the reign when the list of awards given during the reign was published. Not as applicable to the East, which publishes on an ongoing basis.

My impression is that folks in the East write their own fealty oaths, so they pretty much have to be done individually (as opposed to mass fealty using standardized oaths). If that's the case (which is both strange and cool to me), doing that outside of Court sounds like a good plan .... possibly other than changes in kingdom officers.

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

to see an entire AoA order called up to induct a new member

Remember, we have no Grant level orders in the East. The only "Orders" are Peers and AoA-level.

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

Yep, I remember.

The Outlands doesn't usually call up the Order for anything but Peerages, so I'd have been just as boggled if the East had GoA-level orders and called them up every time they gave one of those out, too. Then again, the Outlands doesn't poll for anyone except Peerages and the White Scarves, so I'm full of boggling sometimes. :)

It's certainly not bad - just different, and the question was about how to make Courts flow better/faster and be more interesting. I saw that some folks suggested to call the Orders up and induct all the new members at once, but ... that usually feels less personal and meaningful for the individuals (make one Maunche and they get all the attention, but make three at once and it's diluted), so I'm reluctant to suggest it.

[owynn.livejournal.com]

No inside jokes.... these always fail even for those who think it might be funny. Simply stated don't be that guy.

Don't be the person who makes a show of taking 30-40 little knives and ohter weapons off their person as they make their way into court. Brenwen saw Andre and Gabby's guard taking weapons off someone, and asked me why we don't do that for her. I told her, "Its because the people love you and no one would want to harm you, and if you cannot trust your populace, they cannot trust you. Plus, do you want court to go any longer?"

The above are two things done by members of the populace, somewhat outside of the control of the heralds.

Want court to go quicker, start it on time. This is something the royalty is responsible for.

For autocrats, when setting up chairs for court, remember to leave enough space for the members of the orders to gather if they are called up. Make the aisles wide enough for people to pass.

While i think the surpise awards are nice, for me, my wife has not been in attendance for the majority of my awards, nor was she notified about some. Had they not been surprises, she would have attended.

I sometimes wonder if calling a person up, the royals talk to them, have them announce the award, show the scroll, and hten having it read while the person walks away would work.

[collin-m.livejournal.com]

I’m really finding this thread helpful. I hope I can learn from these suggestions and not do bad courts myself.

[wingblaze.livejournal.com]

Dude, I love you man. But I swear to GOD if you mumble during one of your courts, you're going to hear about it. I consider it my duty to you as your friend to not let you be that guy.

[collin-m.livejournal.com]

I'm counting on just that. I know there will be a learning curve. I know people like you and Allis who I expect to let me know when I suck. I truly don't want to be "that guy."

[woodwindy.livejournal.com]

I find I can be loud or articulate -- very seldom both at the same time. It's frustrating, because I do know I need to project, but if I focus on that I start losing my ability to form coherent sentences.

I should appoint someone to stand at the back and wave if I can't be heard. One of the Pennsic classes on projection probably wouldn't hurt either...

[lumineaux.livejournal.com]

Your court problem wasn't mumbling ;-)

[collin-m.livejournal.com]

Don't I know it? I can still hear the laughter in my nightmares. :) At least as a Baron I won't have to do much, if any, reading of other people’s words. And just as with Thomas I know I can count on you to let me know where I can do better.

[katnboots.livejournal.com]

"So, discuss this and your other ideas for making Court, particularly Royal Court, less like slow torture."

Wait. We don't like torture?

[collin-m.livejournal.com]

We as a whole not so much with the liking torture. You I'm not so sure about.