Back by popular demand
Aug. 29th, 2006 10:59 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lumineauxIn somewhat edited form, some talking points on marshalling melees:
On a non-substantive note, the word is spelled "marshallate." We are "marshals." "Martial" is an adjective. Or a Saint. Sorry, pet peeve.
(1) Go home and read the rules. Over and over again. Read the EK rules and the Society rules.
(2) Start double-checking on the enforcement of the rules at your practice. Get your people used to the fact that yes, we all have to follow the rules *as written.* If you want different rules, write to Aedan (the Society Marshal for Rapier) or go play in your backyard.
(3) Make sure your own gear and conduct is up to snuff. You can't enforce the rules if you are slacking off on complying with them yourself.
(4) Write and report *everything* up the chain of command, both good and bad. Otherwise, the Regional and Kingdom Marshals will never be able to spot a pattern of bad behavior. Don't rely entirely on the local marshal or marshal in charge to report - you may have seen something that they did not.
Report good things too. If someone handled a difficult situation well, the good news should be shared.
(5) Learn to accept that confrontation happens. There is no warm, fuzzy, loveable way to throw someone out of a tourney. There are polite ways and impolite ways to do it, of course. But you can't be worried about whether the person you are sanctioning is going to like you, because it is almost inevitable that they won't (at least for some period of time) no matter how politely you try to handle things.
If you don't think you would ever be able to throw someone out, you should not be marshal in charge of an event. If you don't think you'd be able to impose a sanction in a polite way, you should make sure you have back-up and someone to help you moderate the tone.
(6) Police your own. If someone at your practice or in your group is being an idiot, don't just let it slide and assume someone else will catch it.
(7) Remember that you are a marshal even when you are fencing. This is particularly true in melees. If someone does something inappropriate, call a hold. Get names, tag numbers, something to identify the offender(s). Use the Marshal's Court or similar venue. People can't be sanctioned if they can't be found or identified.
(8) If you are MIC of an event, remember that no one has the right to fence. If the misbehavior is widespread enough, there doesn't even have to be fencing at the event at all. I may be particularly hard ass about this, but if people can't be trusted to keep their control in melees, there is no reason why melees have to happen.
(9) Don't be afraid to make a mistake. Better to make the call using your best judgment than to do nothing out of fear. Be prepared to explain why you thought what you did was reasonable under the circumstances. If you end up making a mistake, then apologize and make appropriate amends for it.
(10) Being a marshal is a job. It is not a rank or a privilege. It is not something you do to get a check mark in the box to move up in rank or get the shiny doo-dad. The job does not care about Crowns, coronets, scarves, OGRs or anything except the enforcement of the rules and the safety of the fencers. Jacques Newbie should get the same treatment on the field as Master Don Big Ego or Sir Not Appearing in this Film.
Discuss at your leisure.
On a non-substantive note, the word is spelled "marshallate." We are "marshals." "Martial" is an adjective. Or a Saint. Sorry, pet peeve.
(1) Go home and read the rules. Over and over again. Read the EK rules and the Society rules.
(2) Start double-checking on the enforcement of the rules at your practice. Get your people used to the fact that yes, we all have to follow the rules *as written.* If you want different rules, write to Aedan (the Society Marshal for Rapier) or go play in your backyard.
(3) Make sure your own gear and conduct is up to snuff. You can't enforce the rules if you are slacking off on complying with them yourself.
(4) Write and report *everything* up the chain of command, both good and bad. Otherwise, the Regional and Kingdom Marshals will never be able to spot a pattern of bad behavior. Don't rely entirely on the local marshal or marshal in charge to report - you may have seen something that they did not.
Report good things too. If someone handled a difficult situation well, the good news should be shared.
(5) Learn to accept that confrontation happens. There is no warm, fuzzy, loveable way to throw someone out of a tourney. There are polite ways and impolite ways to do it, of course. But you can't be worried about whether the person you are sanctioning is going to like you, because it is almost inevitable that they won't (at least for some period of time) no matter how politely you try to handle things.
If you don't think you would ever be able to throw someone out, you should not be marshal in charge of an event. If you don't think you'd be able to impose a sanction in a polite way, you should make sure you have back-up and someone to help you moderate the tone.
(6) Police your own. If someone at your practice or in your group is being an idiot, don't just let it slide and assume someone else will catch it.
(7) Remember that you are a marshal even when you are fencing. This is particularly true in melees. If someone does something inappropriate, call a hold. Get names, tag numbers, something to identify the offender(s). Use the Marshal's Court or similar venue. People can't be sanctioned if they can't be found or identified.
(8) If you are MIC of an event, remember that no one has the right to fence. If the misbehavior is widespread enough, there doesn't even have to be fencing at the event at all. I may be particularly hard ass about this, but if people can't be trusted to keep their control in melees, there is no reason why melees have to happen.
(9) Don't be afraid to make a mistake. Better to make the call using your best judgment than to do nothing out of fear. Be prepared to explain why you thought what you did was reasonable under the circumstances. If you end up making a mistake, then apologize and make appropriate amends for it.
(10) Being a marshal is a job. It is not a rank or a privilege. It is not something you do to get a check mark in the box to move up in rank or get the shiny doo-dad. The job does not care about Crowns, coronets, scarves, OGRs or anything except the enforcement of the rules and the safety of the fencers. Jacques Newbie should get the same treatment on the field as Master Don Big Ego or Sir Not Appearing in this Film.
Discuss at your leisure.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 03:43 pm (UTC)Martial also wrote a group of semi-scandalous epigrams.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 03:48 pm (UTC)Actually a thing I'd like is sort of a formal program for MiTs in the East, like required reading and/or classes and stuff. Maybe that way MiTs would be more clear on what's actually expected of them to become a marshal.
I might post something about it on the marshals list within a few weeks.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 03:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 04:19 pm (UTC)This used to exist. Brita and Griffyn did a huge amount of work when they were Regionals putting together a fairly standardized MIT training program. What the heck happened to it? Did it simply vanish?
I'm just appalled that so much work done to put things in writing and create an institutional memory seems to have failed.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 04:27 pm (UTC)I remember my time as MiT and my frustration after more than one year of it, and asking
Between the specific discussion going on in the East about fencing lately, I think though it might be soon a good time to discuss that.
Re: Just another opinion to add...
Date: 2006-08-29 04:38 pm (UTC)The chances to compare inter-kingdom traditions alone are useful.
Re: Just another opinion to add...
Date: 2006-08-29 04:42 pm (UTC)That seems pretty unfair to me.
Re: Just another opinion to add...
Date: 2006-08-29 10:21 pm (UTC)And, unfortunately, it became WHO sees you not whether you're seen. Trust me on that, as I was stuck in MIT limbo for quite some time despite working with multiple marshals from at least 4 different practices (and being recommended by several of them at once towards the end). It all came down to needing to have 1 particular person observe me list marshal (for all of 2 min). Meanwhile, my Shire kept having to cancel practices due to lack of a 2nd marshal. It was all very frustrating.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 04:35 pm (UTC)Keep a log of every time you MIT at an event.
Date
Event name
Marshal worked with
If you worked with someone for a while, ask them to report to the regional on your progress.
I personally, as a marshal always, always try to report to the appropriate regional when I've worked with someone. I try to provide full name, event info and where I thought the person stood.
Of course the regionals may have my head for putting this out here, but I think not.
Jael
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 04:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 04:46 pm (UTC)Don't be afraid to do that. I was VERY pushy with my marshallate. I had been trained to be a marshal from day one but from official POOF you are an MIT to Poof you are a marshal - i think it was like 4 months?
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 05:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 10:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 12:37 am (UTC)MIT's keeping a log is a cool idea. Hopefully it'll spread, cause if we don't tell the MIT's they're supposed to keep a log of their efforts, they won't.
A while back I started work with oaken_glen on an MIT program that made a warranted marshal accountable for the training of any MITs they were mentoring. I don't have time to continue that right now, though if she is agreeable we could perhaps share the bits we wrote on it, for what it's worth.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 04:47 pm (UTC)I think it is a great idea for a new set of eyes to look at MIT's too.
But I think as a whole the existing marshals need to keep an eye out for our MIT's.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 09:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 05:58 pm (UTC)Okay, in its most compressed form, what you need to learn to do in order to become a marshal is:
(1) Learn how to line marshal. This includes getting used to watching bouts while also watching the sidelines and the crowd.
(2) Learn the rules. Not just be able to parrot them back, but to understand how they work together and are applied in practice.
(3) Learn how to watch bouts for problems. How can you tell if a shot was good? What do you do when the fencers have a problems.
(4) Learn a little bit of conflict resolution skills and the marshallate chain of command for resolving problems.
(5) Learn how tournaments work and are organized. You usually don't have to learn how to be your own MoL anymore, but you should understand how a tourney is put together and what is needed in order to hold one.
(6) Learn how to watch and authorization and what to look for. How can you tell if someone should be authorized?
(7) Learn the principles of fencing an authorization - it's different than fencing a real bout.
(8) Learn the armor and weapons standards and how to do armor and weapons inspections.
The one thing that cannot be taught is how to have and exercise good judgment. That's the hardest part of learning how to be a marshal and the one thing that can't be quantified onto a check list.
And note again that all of this is my *opinion* - I'm not in the marshallate hierarchy other than as a marshal at large and I have no personal knowledge of any of the current Regional Marshals' positions on marshal training.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-30 03:58 pm (UTC)...but learn it anyway.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 05:02 pm (UTC)*sniff*
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 05:51 pm (UTC)Sooooooo, tracytris since you remember the training program, I suggest that you head up the project to rebuild it. We'll give you all of our materials. :-)
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 05:56 pm (UTC)hehe
oh you are so funny.
maybe. :) It's been a long time.
What i remember most was mock quals being run on a regular basis.
Gregory talking about metallurgy and how to inspect blades properly.
Aside from that it is only the big picture that I remember. That there were usually 10-20 people at these training sessions - even some warranted marshals would be there to brush up on their stuff.
anyway.
I'll consider it - but given what's going on in life at the moment, prolly not any time soon.
no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 10:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 10:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-08-29 09:06 pm (UTC)